I recently picked up a Fostex-R8 eight track reel-to-reel recorder, and then snagged one of these Fostex 450 mixers to go with it. The mixer worked great except for the LED VU meters. most of the LED's appeared dead like in the above 'before' GIF. Lurking around the internet, in forums, and message boards, I came to realize this is a common problem with these machines. Luckily my R8's LED's are all working fine. I believe the VU meter boards are all very similar between the various Fostex mixers and reel-to-reels. So, this little tutorial might help out anyone with one or more of these machines. With patience and a steady hand, you too can have all new fully functional VU meters!
I had to use a blade to get the plastic piece off. The piece has four small dowels that fit through the PCB and bevel out to hold it on. I just cut the bevel off to release it. Now I can see the teeny tiny LED's.
Here's a closeup of the fragile micro LED's. Like .1mm squares with a single hair wire attached to the top of them. No wonder these things fail! With a small point soldering Iron I removed all the old diodes.
And here's the replacements! Modern 0603 surface mount LED's. These are similar in design except they are encased in an epoxy or resin. This protects the hair wire from braking. If you've ever solder SMD components you probably know extra Flux is important and very helpful. I used flux to help tin the trace pads and hold the LED's in place while soldering.
Here's one finished board. The plastic diffuser piece fits right back over the new LED's, and the PCB snaps right back into place. I'm not going to lie, it's a tedious job, but once your done you'll have fully functional beautiful bright new VU meters. They should last a good long while too. I hope this helps some people out! Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
cheers,
Addendum:
If anyone has dead LED's and isn't comfortable doing this procedure themselves I might offer a repair service in the future. Ideally you'd be able to remove the VU boards yourself, and mail them to me instead of the whole machine. I haven't worked out prices, but it would be reasonable (cost of materials and time).
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI have a Fostex 450 too and a Model 80 recorder, so 12 VU meters to fix , but i'm not confident in myself for these too tiny leds.
So I need you help.
Hope to read you soon,
Chris
Hey Chris,
ReplyDeletePlease send me an email if you think you'd like to have me fix your VU meters. For 12 VU meters, I'm thinking around 200$ for parts, labor, and return shipping.
best,
Can you supply the part number you used for the replacement LEDs?
ReplyDeleteSorry, I don't have a specific part number for the LEDs I used. I just bought a pack on the bay when I did this mod. I think any 0603 size LEDs should work, but if you're buying from mouser or digikey or something I would go for low current ones (under 50ma).
DeleteCool, that's what I was looking to know. Thanks =)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletehttps://www.facebook.com/Magneto-shop-1388419874796661/
ReplyDelete:) I'm not the only one.
DeleteMight have to hit you as I'm going to test out a Model 80 tomorrow and I have a feeling...
ReplyDeleteI have a about 12 I'd like to get fixed. I'm good with an iron and through hole, but no experience whatsoever in surface mount. Let me know how much to fix 12 if you are interested. rob@leftofthedial.com
ReplyDeleteI commented here back in April. That machine I got had all it's LED's working which was awesome except for the fact that it could barely rewind. I sold it off and recently and ended up with another M80 with dead LED's scattered throughout it's VU meter. I have a soldering gun and am ready to take this on but I just had couple questions (stupid as they may be). One, is the color you used clear? Also, what is Flux? Thanks in advance for putting this page up in the first place. You rule.
ReplyDeleteHi, when you say soldering gun do you do mean one of those trigger style soldering guns? I would not recommend you use one of those. You really need a decent fine tipped soldering station to do this job.
DeleteThe LEDs look clear but glow different colors.
Flux is a liquid or paste that helps solder flow, helps make good connections, and prevents solder bridges. I used a liquid flux that comes in a syringe ( bought it on the bay )
I will warn you, this is like delicate surgery. It takes a steady hand, practice and a lot of patience to do this fix. If you've never soldered surface mount components before, I recommend you practice on some junk PCBs first. Try removing tiny resistors and capacitors then try to put them back.
Those LEDs dimensions are .8mm x 1.6mm! Super tiny and hard to put in place. I've replaced hundreds of those LEDs and it still takes me about 20-30min to do one VU board.
I have a Weller soldering iron and am ordering the Flux. I have experience soldering capacitors and wires but nothing this intricate. I'm confident that with this instruction and a little more direction, that I will be able to fix it. Can you describe the application of the Flux? Do you apply it where you want the solder to go, or is it the opposite?
DeleteFlux is great for lots of reasons. I use it to help tin the tiny solder pads and get them ready for the new LEDs. Clean the boards with alcohol after you do this. Then place a small dot of flux on and in-between the solder pads. The flux helps stick the tiny LED in place and will help prevent solder bridges under the LED.
DeleteI recommend watching SMD soldering videos on youtube. You can see how people use flux to solder there.
Thanks! :)
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info and write-up! I ended up rebuilding a total of 8 meters. The first one took me like 45 minutes, but by the time I got down to the last few they were only taking me 8-10 minutes.
ReplyDeleteI used the following LEDs from Mouser:
696-SMLFM0603SICTR (red)
696-SMLFM0603SUGCTR (green)
FYI to anyone else doing this... These ended up being SIGNIFICANTLY brighter than the original LEDs. Normally not a bad thing, but if you are looking to match working meters, or just wanting a "stock" look, you may want to get some that aren't as bright.
Hi John! glad you found the write-up useful. One thing you can do to adjust the brightness is to up the resistance of the resistors on the individual boards. I think I changed the resistance value on my boards to 270K.
DeleteThe LEDs you used are 20ma. That's a pretty common current rating and probably what I used on my own meters. The last boards I fixed I ended up using 10ma LEDs, and they turned out only slightly brighter then the originals.
Ah, that's good to know, thanks!
DeletePS, would you happen to know how to drive one of these boards without installing it back into its original unit (tape deck/mixer)? I'm thinking about selling the extras off and would like to re-test them beforehand.
Got it figured out. If you just want to make sure all 12 LEDs work, supply 0v to pin 1, and +9v to pin 2. Pins 3 and 4 control the scale (-3.3v to 0v).
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting the pinout voltages!
DeleteWOW
ReplyDeleteAmazing wow
DeleteIt's a fucking incredible amazing wow
DeleteReplace the 82k resistance with one of 1.5M to match the brightness to the old LEDs
ReplyDeleteThanks for that note.
Deleteis that for the 20ma led? or 10ma?
DeleteThank you very much for publishing this, it's been a massive help!
ReplyDeleteI replaced the LEDs on my E16 with 0603 20mA red and green SMDs. However, when I send a full signal, the very last LED at the top slowly pulses, about 1 cycle per 5 seconds. Any idea why that would be happening? Would changing the 82k resistor help that? If that resistor value is changed, are the VUs still accurate?
Hey,
DeleteThanks for the kind words. I'm glad you found the info helpful.
As to your problem- That's a weird one. When you say pulse, do mean a gradual illumination/dimming effect? Are you sure it's not suppose to do that? And have you tried different signals like a loud sine test tone?
I'm pretty sure the 82K resistor is just a current limiting resistor for the LEDs. If you bump up the value it will only dim all the LEDs. The VU driver circuit is under the black dot.
I have a b-16 with some of the leds out, and if you’re still offering repairs I’d love to get mine in.
DeleteHey Bon,
DeleteI haven't done any in a few years, but still can if you really want.
I think I used to charge a dollar per LED or $12 a VU board. So, like $200 for a 16 track + return shipping (assuming you can remove and ship the VU boards by themselves).
Does your B16 have the later yellow/orange and red LEDs? It looks like the earlier model has Green and Red LEDs. That model probably has large through-hole LEDs that would be much easier to replace.
James
Hey James, sorry I didn’t see this until now, but I am definitely interested. Could you email me, and I send over whatever information you need?
DeleteCheers!
Bon
B5nny@protonmail.com
Hi James, great posts! 1)Do you happen to know if the Fostex model 20 has the same or similar LED meters that could be fixed like you fixed the ones on your 450 mixer? 2) Are you still doing any of this?
ReplyDeleteV/R,
William
I'm sure William already did something on his meters, but if anybody else is wondering, they do in fact use the same 12-segment modules in the Model 20 (8256 0260 00). If anybody has kept track of how many use this type, I'd imagine other people would like to know too.
DeleteThanks!! This was a huge help. For what it's worth, the level meter in the X-15 cassette recorder is constructed in the same way, except the board has two columns of LEDs, with a driver chip at each end.
ReplyDeleteI used 10 milliamp LEDs (Lite-On LTST-C190GKT green, LTST-C190EKT red) without any resistor changes, and in a side-by-side comparison with my one surviving meter segment, they're not far off the originals in brightness and colour. Maybe slightly brighter, but not offensively so.
Thanks for sharing!
DeleteThanks for the guide! I fixed my X-15 with it.
ReplyDeleteAwesome! Cheers :)
DeleteGetting ready to tackle all eight modules on one of the M80's here, and was wondering something about the pin signals if anybody knows. I think every single LED on this one module I'm messing with is dead, so I can't check. A reply back in Nov 2016 states "Pins 3 and 4 control the scale (-3.3v to 0v)". I'm figuring that, between those two, one would need to be the signal? With the common hobbyist meter chips I looked at, the other is set to whatever voltage you wanted 0VU to be (actually uses a couple pins and a chain of voltage divider crap or something). How does this negative 3.3 to 0 arrangement between two pins work?
ReplyDeleteGodspeed replacing the LED's! Hopefully you find a groove on the first board and develop a method that works for you. I learned hold the LED in place with an overgrown fingernail. A gentle touch of a tinned fine point iron is all it takes to solder the LEDs to the board.
DeleteThanks Jschlock! I've dealt with normal human type SMD a bunch of times (805/603), and have a hot air station and super fine tipped irons, but this sounds to be particularly problematic. A lot of the time I use the tip of a jeweler's screwdriver held in one of those "helping hand" things with the alligator clips to pin the center of them down like you're doing. Still not sure how many of my boards are simply an LED matter though, and wondering about that reference/signal voltage thing if anybody knows. -Thanks!
DeleteIn my experience, the VU boards (minus the LEDs) are pretty robust. I haven't seen any that were faulty apart from the bad LEDs.
DeleteHave you seen these remanufactured boards on this german site?
https://schorb-led.de/led-vu-meter/11/schorb-led-vu-meter-gelb/rot-fuer-fostex-bandmaschinen-e16-model-80-450-etc
Whoever designed those definitely knows more then I do. The site is all german but I think there's a 'ask a question' link.
Cheers!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey, i did repair meters on model 80 and 450 and have some infos for those who still research what parts etc.
ReplyDeleteGet some very fine tip to your solder station, flux and magnifying glass.
No need to use hot air, regular solder gun with very fine tip and lot of carefulness will do.
Use generic 0603 smd LED - standard ones are 20mA.
When using 20mA led-s replace the R0 to 1/8w 1.5Mohm resistor.
You can test this VU meter just by using 9v battery, minus to PIN 1, and plus to PIN 2 - all leds should light up!
And that's it! ;)